Translate

Sunday 22 November 2015

Some queries I recently tried to answer

Hello Dear Doctors,

Recently I was asked for my opinion by an aspiring candidate on Rxpg. I have tried to answer him with utmost sincerity and i also post this here for benefit for other candidates.

He writes...........
1.There are a lot of contradictions in the experiences of those gone there also, say for example some IMGs get paid around 600 Euros when they were being trained for approabtion whereas some where paying to the hospital for that kind of training. 

My Response : I totally agree about the wide spectrum of experiences of different people, reason for that is, different people choose different paths as there are more than one routes to get into PG here and the paths and processes are quite jumbled up. One cannot make an entire unidirectional flowchart to success in the german system. The key is step by step  targeted approach. Fact is there is nothing called Training for Approbation done by Hospitals, I think what you are reffering to is Observership,, that’s basically just being in the Hospital and seeing and learning the system. You can get it for free by sending multiple hundred email applications or pay up a reliable agent to set it for you. By the latest law which came in Feb 2015, Hospitals are required to pay around 400 Euros to Observers, to stop possible exploitation of the candidates, in response to this Hospitals have started avoiding Observers as they don’t want to pay some one who is just going to stand there, who has no german medical license and cannot do any actual doctorly work. The Training for Approbation is conducted by Institutes, its like full coaching class room sessions, as we have training institues for Pgentrance in India, also they arrange few months of Observership with some hospital by paying them the money hospital is supposed to pay the candidate by law. All of this is undertable transaction. Most of the money is retained by the Agent and by the profit making institute. All the cost is ultimately borne by the candidate.

2.The shortage of doctors are sometimes highlighted and at other instances lack of training postions are also cited. As of now there is an inflow of doctors from East Europe where pay is much lower. Being citizens of the EU, they have higher preference.

Response : That’s totally correct, at present the total number of doctors is maximum that germany has ever seen. That’s the reason they are in a choosing position and screening the right candidate now because of huge number of  applications. Vacancies are very limited in cities,, plus all good big hospitals need candidates with Approbation. Only smaller hospitals in smaller cities settle for doctors with Berufserlaubnis ( Temporary license ).

3) Regarding the choice of speciality, 4-5 yrs back you had the luxury of choosing any but now it seems to have a bit hard lined to fewer specialities like Internal Medicine et al. I honestly don't know whether that's true. 

Response : the sequence of ease of getting into a speciality from easiest to difficult : Internal medicine, Neurology,Anaesthsia, Gen Surgery, Ortho ( don’t even think about Radio or Dermat ..not practical thinking)

4)When talking of the work environment some candidates are quite unhappy with the rigid and rude system whereas some others are very happy and have no bad impressions at all.

Response : Every society is mix of different kinds of people. some are good and helpful,, some rude and arrogant. And that applies to the foreign doctors  aswell as much it applies to the locals, some try to mix up well and get friendly,,some have their own egos and prejudice. Its really a personal thing, cannot be generalised. I have personally come across people who are very friendly and make u feel part of the team and also there are some who would try to pull you down and clearly show you how much they hate foreigners. Its your tact to deal with it on person to person basis. Having a good german language is a very big help to get included.

5)Competitiveness wise - University hospitals seem to difficult for International candidates. They are often posted in peripheral centers. 

Response : True, but peripheral centres are not like what we imagine in India. They are well equipped and have good patient load as they cater to 2-3 small towns together. Just that you need to live in a smaller place.

6)I feel that all these depends on where you choose your training. Would you throw some light on the info you have about the current sitaution - like the prospects for different specialities - the ones with more vaccancies etc. That can help us in deciding how conduscive would the journey be. 
Response :  I have covered the ease of different specialities already

7)Please do mention of the approximate cost - which has to be paid in India & Germany from your research. I have a friend for whom his agent is charging around 1.5 lakhs for Documentation + Visa processing + one way Ticket. He will require to have a deposit of 6000Euros in his name in a German bank. The other preparations for his Approbation will have to be borne by himself. To save money he is trying to learn his German as far as possible from India. He will be assisted in finding a training position for which the agency will be applying at different hospitals on behalf of him. 

Response : This is a very tricky part, and I am going to share only my personal opinion in this matter. I know several aspirants duped completely in this path. Infact I personally have never heard a success story through an agent ( Success means getting a JOB CONTRACT from a  Hospital) and I have known quite a number of aspirants in last 2 years. Your friend is doing the right thing by learning maximum possible german in india itself. 1.5 Lakhs is not a huge money, so can be tried. The amount to be deposited in the bank is called Blocked account to be used by the candidate to withdraw money every month for living expenses. It is essential requirement to apply for a Student Visa. Question is what if the visa is rejected ? how much of the 1.5 Lakhs will be refunded ?? Visa processing takes some amount less than 10K ( Check german visa fees website to get the exact fees), One way ticket is around 30-35 K. And one doesn’t need any documention or translation till you actually get a job. Not even for interviews. Other question is how much is the Approbaton training institute costing ? and who pays for living costs ? when you calculate reasonable cost would go more than 10 Lakhs. They promise Visa, and training.. and this and that,,,but if someone would pay such huge amount , they should talk about JOB Contract certainty, all other things are useless talk, just business.
That’s why I personally never recommend Approbation training, its takes time and costs huge,, plus why not get a job first, apply for berufserlaubnis ( BE), get BE, start working and getting salary and then think about approbation,, I mean you have 6 months to 2 years ( diff in diff states) to take Appro Exam.
Hope I have elaborated to the required details.
Good Luck !!

Regards,
Deepak Mishra


Saturday 17 October 2015

Feb 2015: ( German)Report on Foreign Doctors in Germany and Short Interview of Head of the State Medical Council


From the other side..

Hello guys,

I have not been able to post anything in last couple of months as I was myself preoccupied with my new Job placement , finally after complete one year of landing on the German soil and thriving through the few months of training in Neurosurg and few months in Anaesthesia,, finally i have begun with  my PG in Ortho, which was my original plan but it took complete year to realize. And settling in a new hospital in a new city can be pain staking. Anyhow I am back on the block.

In this post i am going to cover the basic preparation required by mbbs doctors to work in Germany.

So what is the basic preparation required ? Most people would say its so simple,, just learn German and you are in !!!!

But that would be oversimplifying the whole process. Although good language skill is a prerequisite for getting selected in an Interview , its not the only thing required, along with your medical knowledge ,work experience, (work experience is the next most important requirement after language) and your Aptitude you are also tested on your Attitude and your mindset and readiness to work in a foreign environment, determination to improve your language become a part of the german team. 
In india we have a concept of Exams for everything, if you dont have an exam for something, that means its not important. But the people who interview you here, have these things in back of their mind while interacting with you. They dont wanna take someone who will back down with pressure or run away in few months.

I would like to also add , the mbbs doctors who plan to work in Germany should have  firm resolve and be ready to do the hardwork and take the frustration and desperation inspite of hardwork which the entire process of about 1- 1.5 years brings. 
Advise : dont start on this path if you cannot hold your horses for around 2 years. 

Best Regards

Yours truely.





Sunday 26 July 2015

Checklist of required Documents for Berufserlaubnis in Niedersachsen

Dear fellow Doctors,
In this post I have attached the authentic official and latest Checklist for required documents to apply for Berufserlaubnis ( Temporary License) in the state of Lower Saxony ( Niedersachsen).
It is available on the Niedersachsen Arztekammer ( medical council) website.

Naturally like everything in Germany, even this Document is in German language, here will try to explain what each point in the Checklist mean in simple English. You may use the translator for this purpose, but a piece of advise, dont trust google translate blindly, its wrong many times in terms of context and accuracy.

 First 3 points are simple Forms to be downloaded from the website and filled accordingly.
4. Detailed CV 
5. For people who have lived in Germany for more than 3 months:
    Its a Police Clearance certificate, obtained from the Auslanderbehorde ( Foreign Office in every city in Germany) should not be older than 1 month.
6. For people who have lived in Germany for shorter duration.
     Need to get a Police Clearance certificate from your own country. In India, we get it from the local Passport Office. Simple online system, costs 500 Rs. Checkout Passport India website.
7. Passport ( Never send original, an attested copy or just a plain Photo Copy is also sufficient).
8. An appointment letter from a Hospital in the State, promising you a job after Berufserlaubnis is obtained.
9. Language requirements.
    a) Minimum B2 level certificate.
    b) Medical German exam ( will be conducted by the Council , an exam appointment will be given)
10.  Previous Berufserlaubnis ,if one has already worked before in Germany .
11. MBBS degree, Medical Registration ( MCI or State ,any will do ), Internship complition, Passing Certificate.
12. Good Standing Certificate from MCI.
13. German Translations of all these documents. ( Donot translate your documents in India, because the validity of those translations might be questioned here. Normally Tranlastions of these Documents cost  between 300-400 Euros. 

Sunday 19 July 2015

Free Information Sure ! but No place for free advice or guidance

Dear fellow Doctors,

After writing few posts on this blog and on RxPG , I am overwhelmed with the number of emails and FB messages regarding the system and path towards PG in Germany. What saddens me was most of the people want to ask me the same questions, answers to which I have already mentioned in my previous posts, some of the questions were even hypothetical. I can only imagine that there are some people who are seriously working towards Germany and most are just collecting info, which i have been giving for free so far , because I hate the system of making business out of the information i have got during my long struggle for PG in Germany, but at the same time i have also realized that free information or guidance falls on deaf ears. So I have decided to charge a nominal fee or Rs.500/- to Rs.1000/- per Hour ( depending on previous info status of the person) from the doctors who wish to personally discuss about these things through Phone or Skype .

I will continue to write more posts and share new information whenever I get new info.
I was against Agents and I am against Agents. This charge is just to filter out serious people from time-passers, so that i donot end up wasting too much of my free time.

Wednesday 8 July 2015

Beware of Agents and/or Consultants !!!

It is such a buring topic Agent or No agent....I went through the dilemma myself,, chose the less travelled path..and thats all made the difference.

I guess, everyone will agree that we Indians love the system of Agents and Agencies. We have Property agents ,Railway Agents, Passport Agents, Visa Agents, Agents for Admission in primary school, dont even have to mention about agents for admission in Colleges. And about agents for admission in Medical, Engnng, MBA they are a whole different breed. Now there are new type of agents who promise Specialist Training in Germany. 
BTW system of agents is not limited to India alone,, but in most other countries these agencies are legal companies, who pay taxes and cannot just run away. But in India..every single person who gets some new info ...starts to think of a business plan to sell this info. Worst part is many innocent ( read Stupid) people get involved in this plan and end realising that they have been royally cheated by sweet and nice promises.

 20 years back,, if someone convinced you to pay money in exchange of Information and councelling,, it would be a good deal..after all Information and Knowledge is Power. But in todays world if people do the same..I am really sympathetic that ...Knowledge and Information of Google Guru still eludes you .

As Doctors we consider ourselves smart and intelligent ( at least we enjoy thinking like that) but we get so easily convinced by someone who uses some borrowed words of a foreign language to scare us and some selling strategies..and we are all Game. This surprizes me till date.

One doctor whom i talked to was cheated 7 lakhs rs, told me that guy ( the agent) was a very nice person, i never imagined this could happen. i could only infer that it means,, It may not be the intention of someone to fool you,, for that agent it may be a very promising and sucessful bussiness plan,, but when the day comes to actually get you a job contract or an interview...he may be not be able to do so.. He may realize its not so easy as he thought it to be ..and also promised his candidates to be.

More on this topic later... 


Sunday 7 June 2015

Procedure



Residencies in Germany are like jobs. Once you have your certificates. You can apply through email or send application by post to HR department (Personal Abteilung) of Hospitals which have vacancies. If they like your CV and experience they will call you for Interview which is obviously conducted in German language. Once you are selected by the Hospital, you will receive an appoinment letter , with that you can apply for Berufserlaubnis ( Temporary German Medical License which is valid only to the particular State). This can take anywhere between 2 weeks to 5 months depending upon the state in which you apply. After receiving the license one can officially start working as a PG trainee and start receiving monthly salary of around 4000 Euros gross, which after taxes shrink to around 2300-2400 Euros /Month. 
Berufserlaubnis gives you the time (6 months to 2 years depending upon State) to start working for the time being and  get a Approbation (Permanent License) in the stipulated time.

Primary Medical training in  Russia and Eastern Europe is sometimes considered equivalent to that in Germany when compared number of hours of teaching in each subject and duration of the course therefore these doctors many times donot need to apply for Berufserlaubnis, they can directly get a Permanent license ( Approbation -valid all over Germany) without any exam.

For countries from Indian subcontinent ,Africa and Gulf, Doctors need to take a exam (Knowledge Test/ Gleichfertigkeit Prufung) inorder to get a Permanent Medical License in Germany.


Requirements

The most important requirement : German Language Certificate B2 level , Nowadays C1 is preffered by many states.
In last few months most states require Medical German Language Certificate aswell. Some states accept Certificates like Telc Medizin B2-C1 Certificate, other states want to take their own medical german exam (Fachsprachprufung).

Other Requirements :
Medical Degree Certificate.
Medical License/ Registration in the country of Origin.
Good Standing Certificate from the Medical Council of the country.
Transcript of medical studies ( including the numbers of hours of study of each subject during medical course)
Police Clearance Certificate.
Passport.
Some other documents like Birth Certificate and Marriage Certificate


Introduction

Hello Dear Doctors,
After receiving hundreds of queries regarding post graduation for medical doctors in Germany and explaining and guiding them individually.I have decided to write this blog for the benefit of fellow doctors planning or working towards their goal of doing their specialist training in Germany.

Background :

In the past few years Germany faced an acute shortage of doctors because of the aging population here and many German doctors moving out to other countries for better financial prospects. To combat this shortage, in April 2012 German government made a law which allowed foreign doctors (from outside European Union) to live and work in Germany. After this law was passed huge number of doctors from eastern Europe, Russia and Arab countries migrated to Germany. Now this trend is catching up in India and Pakistan aswell. 








Doctor in Germany: A Day in the Life